1940s and its 12% approval rati rating. even though the recess is in the first week, it is clear that it is going to be a long hot august. >> in five sentences or less, can we depend upon you to vote against any budget bill that includes funding for the implementation of obama care? >> please do. >> how many weeks would you go without paying social security, and how many weeks would you go without paying the troops and having a young lady walk into my office whose husband is over in afghanistan who can't pay her mortgage, because i am shutting the government down, because i don't like the health care law? >> this is what the tea party wants to know, will you vote with mike lee to and med dose here, to de -- meadows here to defund obama care -- yes or no? >> you want the thoughtful

answer? >> i want the yes or no. >> no. >> the issue is whether the republicans force a government shutdown over the imple main tigs of the obama care. the conservative wing of congress called the suicide congress doesn't want to be bothered with trivial things like govern iing. according to "the hill" they are ratcheting up opposition against representative mitch o'connell, and those who don't want to shutdown the government don't seem like people who should be in congress. in fact, it is a revelation when a republican congressman like louisiana's david vitter says he will do the job he was elected to do. >> is your office going to help constituents who might simply want to buy insurance? >> well, we are helping folks in any way we can to get them good information. we field calls e everyday in my

offices around louisiana to try to help people with individual questions and circumstances, and i would encourage folks to call our office to try to get that guidance and help. >> suicide caucus take note, a republican senator will answer calls from the people who elected them even if the questions are about something that he doesn't like. joining me today is host msnbc's disrupt karen finney and host of "up" with steve kornacki, and joining us from oklahoma city is a rpt congressman from oklahoma's fourth district deputy majority whip tom cole, and thank you for joining us while you are on the recess. and i hope that the august heat is not as hot over there as other parts of the country, although we are hearing according to the associated press that during one of your town hall meetings nearly 150 people broke into applause in support of legislation over a government shutdown. what did you make of that,

congressman coa ma congressman cole. >> i love all of the meetings, because they are raucous and spirited and in is a topic along with immigration and national security agency, so again, you have them so people can come tell you what they think, but also so you can tell them what you think and why, and exchange opinions. so they have gone well, and again, we will continue to do them. >> you sound fairly even-minded about this. are you not worried about the quote, unquote suicide congress as pete wayner calls them? >> well, we are not going to shutdown the government and so it is not a surprise to my constituents when i announced that. there are obviously differing opinions out there, and no question that the point of view has support, but once you talk to people, and as my colleague aaron shock did start pointing out the consequences of that in terms of shutting down veterans

faci facilities and laying off defense workers and not paying the troops in the field, and not giving them the services they asked for, and those sorts of things, cooler heads over time prevail. so, again, it is an interesting debate, but i don't think that at the end of the day, it is something that will happen. >> congressman, i am all in favor of cooler heads prevailing and i know that some people on the right may not agree that we have been doing a good job of fomenting a cooler atmosphere, but to your point about reason and understanding how sort of how congress works, i guess i ask you, is this not the harvest that you reap when the house spends an inordinate amount of time trying to repeal obama care and fomenting negative opinions and 40 efforts to take down the settled law of the land and something that the supreme court held up, and is this fear and anger and distress over obama care not a natural extension of what house republicans have been doing for years? >> no, it is a natural extension of what people feel about the

bill that was shoved down their throat in the first place. this thing never had popular support, and it never had one single republican vote, and the only thing bipartisan was the opposition. as it has unfolded the insurance rates have gone up in some place, and the president has had to put off the mandate, and howard dean is saying that the central control mechanism will not work, and it is a debacle and i'm not surprised that people are upset and mad about it, but what you have to do is to focus on how is the appropriate way the deal with it. the house is supposed to express the opinion of the people, and to vote to repeal it repeatedly does not bother me in the least, and people will forget that we have changed the law in four ways already that have saved money on a bipartisan basis.

and we convinced congress that having a 1040 for every $600 by a business is repetitive, and so that is good business that has gone on as well. >> karen, i understand that representative cole has serious issues with the obama care. >> which is a law by the way and not a bill. >> with the town hall anger out there, and there is a huge amount of misinformation whether it is a law or a bill, and kaiser health tracking poll says that 59% of the country thinks it is a law -- think it is unaware that it is law and 42% are unaware of the affordable care act status, and generally speaking, they don't also seem to understand how the balance of power works in the legislative and the executive branches and this is almost a civics lesson in how the american democracy works, and a lot of people have not yet learned it.

>> but that is part of what is the kind of what you were saying the chicken is coming home to roost when you have been campaigning for years since it became a law, and since the supreme court said it is a law, a valid law, by still calling it a bill and by still voting to repeal it when there is no vote to repeal it, but as one republican member pointed out in a town hall, the president would have to sign that, a that is not going to happen. >> right. >> and so they have created that mythology that somehow, and in a way what is interesting is that it has kind of put them, and you are right, put them in their own box. this is a box of their own creation. the other side of it however is now that republicans are having to campaign on i'm going to take something away from you. as a woman, if you are paying less for the insurance because of obama care, the republicans say i'm taking that away from you and you have to go back the paying more. >> that is why we are looking at the deadline, because the enrollment is october and this is in effect come january of 2014, steve. the question is, i mean, from

your vantage point, congressman cole here and other congressmen who are being very aggressive in the posturing before the continuing resolution is set to go through congress. i wonder, you know, given what has happened in congress in the last year, how confident should we be that the surrender caucus and the suicide caucus will come to peace? >> i'm wondering and i don't think it is just about what has happened in the last year, but what has happened in the entire obama era in the republican party which is all of the litmus tests have emerged and purity is the idea in the universe now. you have to prove the purity as a republican and conservative to the party base, and if not, you will lose for instance and be mike cassell in delaware and lose to christine o'donnell, and be in nevada and lose aingele and if you have been in office for a long time. the thing that i am seeing happen is 150 people showing up

at tom cole's town hall and asking if you will shutdown the government over defunding implementation of the obama care. that message is coming somewhere and it is a national message through talk radio and cable news and web sites and twitter and all of the social media, and they are the twitter, but that message is coming from somewhere, but i am seeing a litmus test develop right now, and the question is can people like tom cole and aaron shock keep it from reaching the level to prove your conservative credentials you need to approve a shutdown. >> what do you say about that, congressman cole? >> well, my town halls were tougher when obama care was proposed. i had thousands of people showing up. this is not a new thing and not a self-created box. this law is unpop ular and neve polled at all. >> and to interrupt you for a moment, there was not a split in the republican party that there is now back when obama care was first proposed.

>> that does not have a split in the opinion of obama care, but a split in the opinion about the way to oppose it, and it is a tactical debate and not a deep philosophical fish susure, and the president was controlling the house, we had the second large nest the history and 60/40 in the senate and now 64 republican senators and 30 governors and so again, this idea that somehow what the president has done is to put us in a box and on the road to -- >> no, you put yourselves in the pox. >> i don't think so. it is a bad law. >> we will see. >> and if it were a good law, the democrats wouldn't have lost the ma jjority as decisively as they have in 2010, and they would have easy captured the presidency in 2012. >> and you know, you will find that conservatives agree that obama care very likely may be pop ular with americans once it is in effect. there are some conservatives who say you will get some americans sucking off of another teet of

the government. >> well, i have been hearing it how sooner or later it is going to be popular, but it is not. parts in effect now, and we were told it would be a, you know, popular within a couple of years, and certain things happen, but it is simply not. you look toward -- >> but congressman, you -- >> and it would not be pushing back the businessmandate. >> and let me move on to another piece of this, and you have highlighted the fact that it is being implemented and parts of it being implemented in a sort of sporadic fashion across the country, and you now have the situation where some states are expand i expanding the medicaid rolls and setting up exchanges and your state is not. nearby in arkansas, they are, and now the medicaid expansion of medicaid is going to go towards the private insurers, but nonetheless, two neighboring states and one of which is yours where poor people have access to health care in one state and not another, and are you at all concerned about that dynamic? >> well, that is a state issue, and the state is allowed to make the choice. 34 states by the way, and it is

not as if oklahoma is out there all alone. the majority of the states don't like it or they are worried about the costs. again, i will let the government and the state legislature make their own decisions, because they are much more popular than the president is in this state and probably much better aware of what people want them to do. >> and congressman, karen finney has a question for you. >> this is what i find disturbing in all of this and you were talking about some of the ways that you have been willing to work with the administration and work with democrats to improve the law, so i mean, we are talking about the health and well-being of our people here, and it is not -- and this is not a philosophical argument, because for some people it is life and death, and so why would the strategy not be to continue to work on making the law better instead of this ridiculous repeal that used to be repeal and replace, and now it is simply a repeal message. at some point is there not a moral obligation to people?

>> well, of course, there is a moral obligation to people, and if you think that the policies pursued are ultimately destructive and self-defeating and frankly bankrupting you have an obligation to continue to oppose. and oppose does not mean that you can't find common ground. >> instead of finding what the law is and why can't you focus on what you can change and make better. >> well, we have, and that is why there are seven bills and $62 billion worth of savings and reduced regulations and we have been able to do some things, and perhaps after the next election and we will be able to do omore and we will know more about the bill as it unfolds and we see how it actually quote works out. >> the law. >> and simply not popular. it has never been, and look at the polls. you kand fican't find a poll wh people like it. >> congressman, we don't have much more time, but i want to ask your opinion if you think that the suicide and you don't think they will, but if the republican party succeeds in shutting down the government in

the fall, will it have repercussion repercussions in 2014? >> yes, i have always been a proponent to shut down the government and you have an obligation to govern and when you have a majority, you have an obligation to get it done. we have a divide government as we do now, you have an obligation to try to reach across the aisle to work with the other side where you can. >> cooler heads, let them prevail. congressman tom cole from oklahoma's fourth district, and thank you for your time and good luck in the town halls. coming up, he graduated from princeton and harvard law, and argued before the supreme court nine times and yet his senate colleagues have called him a schoolyard bully and a whacko bird. and now ted cruz is on the short list of the 2016 list, and we will talk about the lone star's lone star up ahead. ose tens of thousands of dollars on their 401(k) to hidden fees. is that what you're looking for,

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before he was a senate's resident whacko bird fans of ted cruz, hard time with the prompter, fancied him the republican barack obama. in his first national ted talk at last year's rnc convention then candidate cruz highlighted the unique and diverse background. >> it is the story of my mom. irish and italian and working class, the first in her family ever to go to college, and it is the story of my father imprisoned and tortured in cuba and beaten nearly to death. he fled to texas in 1957 and not speaking english with $100 sewn into his understowear. he washed dishes making 50 cents an hour to pay through college.

>> but that is where the cruz and the obama similarities end. we will separate the man from the resume next on "now." time for your business entrepreneur of the week. me layne seemed to have it all for the custom rug company. cu customers, press, international relakesships, but somehow the revenues were not increasing. learning how sitting down and making a plan for growth changed everything. that is on "your business" sunday morning on msnbc. is like hammering. riding against the wind. uphill. every day. we make money on saddles and tubes. but not on bikes. my margins are thinner than these tires.

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still running in the morning? yeah. getting your vegetables every day? when i can. [ bop ] [ male announcer ] could've had a v8. two full servings of vegetables for only 50 delicious calories. i want to say three things to you. number one, now is the single best time and best opportunity to e defeat obama care. number two, this is a fight we can win. and number three, only the american people can win this fight. >> ted cruz has a clear message these days and it is anti-obama care and anti-obama and anti-government. >> there is bipartisan consensus that obama care is not working and the wheels are coming off. >> they want to get as many americans hooked to the subsidies and hooked to the sugar. >> and democratic senator max

baucus the lead author of obama care said it is a huge train wre wreck. >> the first step should be that the house of representatives should pass a continuing resolution to fund the entirety of the federal government except for obama care. harry reid and president obama would scream and yell those mean nasty republicans. >> the sort of cocktail chatter wisdom in washington that the shutdown was a political disaster for the republicans is not borne out by the data. >> over the objections of the colleagues, tea party leader mike lee is leading a petition to refuse to fund obama care. the man whose strategist mark mckinnan called the republican barack obama is seeing the party rise on a party he was bent to tear apart. when asked if he supported mitch

mcconnell, cruz replied that is a decision for the people of kentucky to make. he may be alienating people in washington, but that makes you more popular on the right, and that is the sarah palin barracuda brigade. in this report, cruz is called on cruise control. he wants to shut down the departments of commerce, education and energy and private social security which he has called a ponzi scheme. if that is not sounding like somebody who is short on prag pragmati pragmatism, it should. he is going to be meet with social conservative leaders and return for a third visit in october, and far from marginalizing him, cruz's anti-everything has vaulted him to the top of the polls. and proving that today in the polls, the fringe is the place

to be. as for the party gray beards saying that shutdown is worrisome time, he says it is unlikely talk, and it is the president who wants to shut down the government. >> why is president obama threatening to shutdown the entire federal government to force obama care down our throats. joining us is mike lee and also georgetown professor and msnbc political analyst michael dyson. and michael sharer i go to you first to what we call the rivalless rag we call "time" magazine, but what people don't understand about cruz is that he is a highly educated person with a formidable resume and went to princeton and harvard law and clerked for justice rehnquist, and argued in front of the

supreme court, and shut down multiple cabinet agencies and how do you reconcile the two of them? >> well, you have to go back to the great biography, and alex altman's great piece regardless of how libelous we are. he used a mnemonic device to memorize the constitution. he would go around the state of texas to write the constitution from scratch because he had memorized it. it is not a guy raised like regular teenagers, and he had an ideological viewpoint and clearly when his father was here, and when he was at liberal places, he defined himself against the establishment. he is the arrival of someone from this tea party view of the country and the constitution who e really does have the credentials that all of his predecessors have lacked and really his abilities. the abilities are far beyond what sarah palin could do or michele bachmann in terms of being a communicator for this

message. >> and andrew dyson, the part of this if you expand the cruz story into a story of american democracy is this idea to be a ideological purist, and right, the iron was forged in the heat of the conservative fire, right? he has been consistent throughout hez life, but he is now in government, and government is not a place for governmental purity, but it is a place for it to work together to function. and we would have someone who is now known ostensibly to make a bid to be a candidate in the next presidential election who has no value in compromise or l listening to the other side and no pragmatic policy is a worrisome trend. >> yes, and i hate to play psychoanalyst, but the child is the father of the man and if we go back to rewriting the constitution, there is no norbert viner or a psychological genius, but he is going to

institutional molestation by enlightenment. so you don't have engage mement with the infrastructure of consciousness that you have to compromise to come here, and not ideologically pure, but to maintain the position, but it makes barack obama seem more like a genius, you are have to get into the sand lot and negotiate and agree and disagree with your own party and agree and disagree with the people across the aisle and you do that as a basic premise. these folk are not interested in dem k democracy, but interested in imposing their particular ideological strain on the american subset, and that is the problem here. the failure to do so is going to further marginalize him and he may get some points here, but ultimately, he is going to be compromised. >> andstein, that is the question, does it further compromise him? because ted cruz brings up in the "time" piece, there is a way to describe conservatives as stupid or evil. stupid, and too dumb to know the right answers or if they know

the right answer, they are evil. ted cruz has carved out a niche for himself in crazy town and willingly is sort of the whacko bird, because it is neither evil nor stupid and it is working for him. >> well, there is a bit of a false choice here, because he could be simultaneously marginalizing himself in terms of the viability of a national leader to win a political election and building the base with the republican party, because he is speaking directly to the voters who from the moment that barack obama was elected in 2008, the reaction to president obama's ascencion to the presidency is i wonder where to work with him on the health care or the stimulus, it was we want to fight this way of life. and ted cruz speaks directly to that. i talked in the last segment about a litmus test that may be taking hold in the right and popping up in the voices of the people showing up a at the town halls and compare what you heard in the clip from ted cruz saying this is the moment to end obama

car care, and we can do it. we can win it, and we have to stay together. the purity of the message and the strength of the message to the republican base that thinks that way versus a republican who says no, we need to fund this department or get money for that, and cruz is so much more compelling to that audience. >> but isn't he is a craven politician and using our own liberal doctrine against us, and we are saying he went to princeton and harvard and all of the credentials and how can he be crazy? well, he is not. he is sly, and he knows exactly what he is doing, and clearly has the gift of gab and very good orator and for as much as he may write about the constituti constitution, he's bastardized and distorting the constitution, because the constitution says that is how the government works and how we work together and he is not for any of that, so he is using our own bias against us to make it work for him within -- >> well, there are things that he does that are independent of the schooling and the sort of liberal elite institutions, there is his alienation of

members of the republican party. mitch mcconnell quote is so telling to me the idea that you won't give the thumb's up on mitch's re-election efforts seems to be bombing yourself with political cryptonite. >> well, not -- no, i don't think that he is bombing himself with political cryptonite, but he is setting himself up and launching a grass roots campaign and in the clip that you showed he said that the people will decide this, and he is saying join my movement, and modeling on obama, and alex mentions in the piece that he was handing out david plouffe's book to his staffers, and the tension is between what is good for ted cruz and what is good for the republican party. it is pretty clear that right now the republican party is not benefiting from ted cruz, but ted cruz is clearly benefiting from ted cruz. >> one thing and i know that eric michael dyson will have something to say about this, and there is a difference of the we are the change message espoused by president obama which was a forward thinking collaborate

message about investing in the government and believing in a project which is the project of democracy. >> right. >> and the ted cruz version is that you guys decide this thing is broken and you tell us what to do. it is not a participatory version or collaborate version. >> it is ronald reagan but without any of the charisma or the authority that came from the grandfatherly being and bearing. ronald reagan could make a great speech and also have a sense of timeliness about tear down these walls and knew when to insert himself even though i disagreed with him, and the ideologues around him. there is a difference between campaigning and the popularity that he is able to evoke and governing which means that you have to compromise and talk to other people and disagree with them, and have the cajones to stand up against your own party and then forge consensus against a frayed democracy. >> cajones, we will leave it

there. and now san diego mayor has a problem and not just the 12 sexual harassment cases he faces nor the lawsuit filed by the city council, no, mayor fillner has a bigger problem. we will talk to one of the women who has come forward about him, his former deputy campaign manager. she will join us next. [ male announcer ] this is george.

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they received unwanted sexual advances from mayor fillner at an event for veterans who were victims of session -- sexual assault in the military. both were victims. and he chaired the committee for more than half a decade hit on one of the victims. air force person said she met him at a healing and hiring fair. bob mifillner left her a messag saying that hi, i'm's your newly favorite congressman bob fillner. you know the one who fell in love with you at your last meeting. >> this is an organization of women and for women who have been victims of sexual assault and trauma in the military. we trusted him, and apparently,

he hit on seven or eight of us within the organization which to me is very egregious, because to come into an organization like that is supposed to be a safe space for us to heal, and that is why it is called a healing and hiring fair. >> at present more than a dozen women have come forward about the inappropriate behavior and even though he is being sued by the san diego city council, and even though the city attorneys have ruled that the mayor is no longer allowed to be alone with a woman while on city business, and even though san diegans are petitioning to kick him off out of office, the mayor refuses to resi resign. joining us from san diego, his former deputy campaign manager and one of the women to come forward for the harassment, laura fink. >> thank you for coming forward today. >> thank you for having me, alex. >> what was it like to work for mayor and then congressman bob fillner, because this is a long trajectory and sickening tra jkt ri which if it does end, ends with women who are harassing

women who have been raped as a member of the armed forces. give us your thought on him? >> well, i worked for him in 1995, and it was an intense work environment on all levels so that the sexual harassment part of it is one piece. it is dehumanizing work environment. it was a little bit different than in that he had folks around him that i think probably served to inhibit this behavior. what happened to me in 2005, i was serving as the deputy campaign manager and i was at a fund-raising dinner where my job was to move him from table to table and one of the guests said that i had worked my behind off for him and he should appreciate me, and i was standing directly behind him and he said to turn around which i proceeded to do and then he looked over at me and patted me ton the behind an laughed and said, nope, it is still there. >> this was all set in motion, laura, in large part by a hotline set up by the sheriff's

department to field sexual harassment complaints about mayor filner and are you surprised that he went this far from congress to being the mayor of san diego given the behavior on the job, in public, with numerous women? >> you know, it is hard to look in hindsight and determine that simply because all of this was, these pockets of information were isolated. we all did not know about each other. you have run down the list, but you will see as more women come forward and as more women have come forward that it was really pervasive behavior and i dont n't know if that is something that everyone was aware of and you are isolated as a victim and you don't want to tell your story and tend not the talk about it or feel that you will be dismissed or not believed. so it is not like we had all of the information in the aggregate. am i surprised knowing him personally? i am not surprised, but however, i am extraordinarily disappointed. >> we will open this up to the panel. karen, the fact that the man was

in congress for as long as he was, and laura makes the point that it was not all happening at once and the victims did not know each other, but this is clearly a line of behavior and as dave weigle writes, he spent 20 years in the house and at no time times did colleagues file ethics complaints against him and the slow motion downfall shows how long you can get away with being a creep in politics. the piece of the military sexual assault victims takes it into the realm of not just terrible an unconscionable, but to be depraved to prey on women who have been raped to take advantage of them is unspeakly heinous, and i would say crime. >> i am cop pleatly agree and if it was not completely obvious that he should be out of office, that is the last straw. whoever can help to campaign for enough signatures to have a recall or whatever it is, i am happy to give them money for it, because it is disgusting, but the point that is so important and we talked about this with rape victims and military sexual

assault victims and time and again, part of the problem is that women are not comfortable coming forward and he wouldn't have likely gotten that far if more women had felt comfortable coming forward and been taken seriously, and those things recorded and marked. at a point, it would have been impossible i would like to have believed for an ethics committee to ignore that many women coming forward and so i think that we need to remember, and be totally disgusted by this man's behavior, but this is why we work so hard when we talk about the violence against the women act, and talk about those things that are meant to protect victims that are meant to make it easier for victims male or female to come forward and be believed and have it be taken seriously. >> and it also brings up, michael, the issue of military sexual assaults which the president addressed yesterday, and chuck hagel will address new guidelines in the senate, but it faces an uphill battle in the congress. when kristen jegillibrand was

trying to take the process out of the chain of command, she faced resistance, and this is how it works in the military and screwing with it any anyway is going to undermine the efficacy of the armed services. >> and the current crisis of the sexual assault over the military is not new at all. there have been scandals at some academy or another, and we talk about a it in the press and the military says we will take care of it and a new commission or report or hotline. it never is solved. i think that what karen says is absolu absolutely right that what will change this is consistent persistent people coming out to be public that this stuff is happening and not letting it fade from the headlines after hagel issues whatever. >> and laura, thank you for coming out to share your story, because it is important to hear from the victims. i wonder as a san diegoian and someone who has worked with may mayor filner, what is your assessment of the recall

efforts? there are 1,997 signatures to begin and the petition drive cannot begin until august 18th and 39 days to get it. do you think that the recall effort will work? >> i think it faces a herculean effort, and we have it started without a team in place due to political wrangling here in san diego. i think that it is going to be extraordinarily hard to get 4,000 signatures a day with a volunteer effort where the major groups are staying on the sidelines. it is going to be extraordinarily challenging, but i certainly hope that this lift can be made, but it's, it is going to take a lot. >> well, certainly speaking out and e keeping the spotlight on the behavior of a man who is clearly unwell if these allegations are in fact true is one way to do that. former deputy campaign manager for mayor filner, laura fink, thank you for coming forward.

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after the uneasy times in the year 1870, georgia was the very last confederate state to be readmitted to the union and today nearly 150 years later, georgia seems to be once again waving the stars and bars. a ppp poll from yesterday revealed that republican voters in the peach state like paula

deen, the disgraced n-word dropping tv chef more than they like martin luther king jr. according to the survey, 73% of georgia republicans gave paula deen a favorable rating compared to 59% for mlk. for serious. michael eric dyson, the same poll found that georgia republicans believe that interracial marriage should be outlawed. 24% of them do not think that interracial marriage should be allowed in this country. what do we do about the part of the country that seems so very far behind in terms of the equality and temperance? >> well, you can give great speeches and lead people to the promised land, and you can get the civil rights billed and the voting rights act, but if you can fry some chicken, you are going to be premier. >> that is the ultimate. >> that is all you need and the ultimate litmus test. the tragedy here is that those who claim that those who speak

about this that we are cleave ing to an outmolded way of thinking and that is the south that is gone, these are the people who have passed a off of the scene, this is frightening, because this is now. this is not a poll 20 years ago or 50 years ago, but it is what is going on now, and the persistence of those beliefs suggest that it is not simply having a black man in the white house who can reorganize the logic of american bigotry, but it is seeping into the hearts and the minds and the souls of everyday americans and ordinary citizens who have beliefs that either nurture the best of our possibilities or plays to the worst. here, this is the darker side of the american soul. >> and steve, same poll, ppp, employers should be allowed to discriminate based on sexual orientation, and all georgians, 29% of republicans and 17% of all georgians, this is to the red/blue divide, but the culture

that is breathtakingly sharp. >> well, you talk about the martin luther king issue, and it has been years and decades sin he was murdered, but if he were alive, he would be in his 80s and only 30 years ago that the federal martin luther king holiday was passed and that was jesse helms in the senate trying to filibuster it it. there was opposition to that. >> and ronald reagan seeing if king is a communist when the tapes are released. >> and the legacy is that he was a contested figure of the opposition mainly from the right even after his assassination, and the murder, but you look at the voting returns and what strikes me most about the deep south, and the rural deep south and a rural divide and then urban/rural divide and when you look at the whites in a state like mississippi and alabama and exit polls last year and 2008 as well, 90%-plus for romney and the voting in the states is

basically black, democratic and white, republican. that is what it is down there. >> and part of that is that the democrats have not shown up and made our arguments in the south. that is a big, and the southern progress fund that is part of what they are trying to rectify. if all you hear is vitriol that is on one side of the argument, and if we are not there. alvin greene was our candidate for senate in south carolina, and people say, it is pointless and we will never win, and my point is just that we are never going to effect change if we are not there to at least make the case and show something different. >> that is the legacy of redistricting, too, because the democrats no longer feel they have to campaign or spread a moderate progressive message in that part of the country. and michael, this information is coming to day after the president was in arizona and had protesters outside of one of his speeches singing "bye, bye black sheep" and so to om is degree,

the obama presidency has stirred up american discomfort on the race, and we thought we are further on than we are. >> we saw it with the trayvon martin verdict. after the election of 2008 of president obama, many people thought it would change the racial attitudes and the abilities of blacks and the whites to see it the same way and if you ask the questions today, it has plummeted. obama will say, i won't magically solve this problem. it is a generational thing, and key to this in georgia is that we are one or two generations away from the point where we could not be sitting at the same counter. so this is going to change, and not a hopeless task. >> and may say quickly, but interesting that the recent poll suggests that blacks and latinos are more optimistic about american america than whites and that is the hopefulness and the resurgence of positivity among aft african-americans and hispanics.

>> i thank you for ending on a positive note. >> ki get a hamburger. >> and i say you should pick up the "time" magazine. we will be joined tomorrow by ben and jerry's co-founder ben cohen. until then find us at msnbc.com/al msnbc.com/alex. andrea mitchell reports is next. this summer was definitely worth the wait. ♪ summer's best event from cadillac. let summer try and pass you by. lease this all-new cadillac xts for around $399 per month or purchase for 0% apr for 60 months. come in now for the best offers of the model year.

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